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Poll

Where's your vote going?

Tory
[ 4 ] (12.1%)
Labour
[ 12 ] (36.4%)
Lib Dem
[ 12 ] (36.4%)
Brexit
[ 1 ] (3%)
Green
[ 1 ] (3%)
SNP
[ 0 ] (0%)
Plaid
[ 1 ] (3%)
Someone I've forgotten
[ 2 ] (6.1%)

Total Members Voted: 33

Voting closes: December 13, 2019, 11:19:04 am

Topic: Election 2019 (Read 4043 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Election 2019

Reply #345
I have seen figures from 4 to 7 % lower (than they would be) with the current deal in about 10 to 15 years.

Whilst sh!t I see that as a relatively slow and sh!tty slipping away, not a cataclysm.

Decline

Re: Election 2019

Reply #346
I have seen figures from 4 to 7 % lower (than they would be) with the current deal in about 10 to 15 years.

Whilst sh!t I see that as a relatively slow and sh!tty slipping away, not a cataclysm.

Decline

But there are so many unknowns it's impossible to judge. Does that 4% decline include a sudden (say 12 month) 10% drop followed by a recovery? What parts of the economy will shrink, and what parts will drive growth? We don't know the answer to any of these questions.

At the moment we have a known situation. We can make reasonable forecasts given a set of circumstances. But, with Brexit, we simply do not know. We have no idea what will sprout from the scorched earth of Johnson's Brexit, and neither does he. He doesn't care, because he doesn't need to care. He won't be affected one bit, or any of his hangers on and even many of us on here. Some of us may grumble at having to wait longer in immigration queues, or be annoyed at the extra paperwork required to do something that previously we took for granted.

But, for others, those at the very bottom of the pile, they will be f*cked over the most. Extra layers of bureaucracy, previously taken care of at a higher level. More paperwork and pen pushing. Once viable companies suddenly become unsustainable and go under. This drives other companies under as they do not receive payments. At the same time as companies are folding because of increased bureaucracy, governments are having to negotiate trade deals. These deals are done in an environment where the economy is struggling so we have to give away more than we should. Without the collective power of joining with other countries, we suddenly find that we cannot set the rules, we are but a small country with a rich history. Living off a glorious history will not last long, especially when it becomes clear that those historical times were not so glorious for the majority of the population after all.

Since the 1970s we've slid slowly backwards; after WWII many people experienced having an internal bathroom for the first time. Housing stock was rebuilt and modernised and for the first time many families were able to live in more than one room.

All this was then sold off and not replaced. Despite benefits being much more generous in the 1960s and unemployment lower, in the 1980s it was suddenly decided that removing the threat of poverty from people made them lazy and workshy. The cause of unemployment was not the mass destruction of the industrial north, it was because we were doing too much to prevent people from falling into poverty; what we really need to do is remove all of the safety nets so that people know if they do not work they will die on the street.

That is the basis of economic policy under Thatcherism and that is the job that Johnson will finish if he gets a majority. Brexit gives him the green light to go ahead and f*ck everyone over so that he and his cohorts of guffawing Etonians can sit back and light their cigars with £50 notes.

Re: Election 2019

Reply #347
You are, of course, correct. Which is why I don't want to do it. I also don't want to try the Corbyn way, which I also believe would create uncertain problems e.g what would happen if borrowing costs increase? Could businesses afford the extra costs, or would it accelerate outsourcing or automation?

I think both are sh!t, but I am guessing Brexit as slightly less bad, but I could easily be wrong.

Personally I would like to see modest tax increases, 3 or 4 % across the board, a further increase in personal allowance and the money spent on infrastructure.

Re: Election 2019

Reply #348
You are, of course, correct. Which is why I don't want to do it. I also don't want to try the Corbyn way, which I also believe would create uncertain problems e.g what would happen if borrowing costs increase? Could businesses afford the extra costs, or would it accelerate outsourcing or automation?

I think both are sh!t, but I am guessing Brexit as slightly less bad, but I could easily be wrong.

Personally I would like to see modest tax increases, 3 or 4 % across the board, a further increase in personal allowance and the money spent on infrastructure.

Ok, so you think brexit in economic terms will be slightly less sh!t than a labour/Corbyn government. 

But what about all the other sh!t that brexit will bring that a labour government won’t? Like restrictions on travel and working in Europe, a rise in racism, a massive shortage of nurses and doctors, food shortages, job losses Etc etc? Does any of that not matter if you’ve got a couple of extra quid in your pocket?

I also don’t believe that Corbyn will get an outright majority, so your worse case scenario more than likely won’t happen. The best I’m hoping for is the Tories losing their majority and it being a coalition pro 2nd ref/remain government. From then on, it’s all to play for.

Throwing your lot in with the Tories to stop something that is highly unlikely to happen seems perverse to me.

Re: Election 2019

Reply #349
I won't be voting Tory, nor will I be voting labour either. My party of choice would be LD, but as my constituency would elect a donkey with a blue rosette, and given its Bridgen you could Argue that effectively they will, I probably won't bother

Re: Election 2019

Reply #350
Offensive to donkeys.

It always confuses me as to how people can vote for deranged morons like Bridgen. Take the politics out of it. How could anyone trust him to do anything other than get sh!t epically wrong? What is it that qualifies him as suitable as a representative politician?

I genuinely hope that you don't get to find out how much worse a post brexsh!t right wing Britain can be than a labour government, but I very much fear that you might.

Re: Election 2019

Reply #351
I detest the man I refused to shake his hand when he was doing his meet the people a few years ago.

Also, I'm hoping for a coalition government, this time and generally

Re: Election 2019

Reply #352
as my constituency would elect a donkey with a blue rosette, and given its Bridgen you could Argue that effectively they will, I probably won't bother

This is literally what they're banking on. Change doesn't come about by sitting back and waiting passively for it to just happen.
They don't think it be like it is, but it do

Re: Election 2019

Reply #353
This is the problem with FPTP

This is a massively leave constituency with a massive brexiter MP with a massive majority (he got over 58% of the votes cast).

What do you think would need to happen for my vote to make any difference?

Re: Election 2019

Reply #354
This is the problem with FPTP

This is a massively leave constituency with a massive brexiter MP with a massive majority (he got over 58% of the votes cast).

What do you think would need to happen for my vote to make any difference?

First you have to cast it.
They don't think it be like it is, but it do

Re: Election 2019

Reply #355
This is the problem with FPTP

This is a massively leave constituency with a massive brexiter MP with a massive majority (he got over 58% of the votes cast).

What do you think would need to happen for my vote to make any difference?

It's like arguing with the ref. People suggest it makes no difference, because it changes nothing at the time. But it has the potential to alter future outcomes.

Re: Election 2019

Reply #356

Also, I'm hoping for a coalition government, this time and generally


Me too. So how do we get that?

How about voting?

I won't be voting Tory, nor will I be voting labour either. My party of choice would be LD, but as my constituency would elect a donkey with a blue rosette, and given its Bridgen you could Argue that effectively they will, I probably won't bother

Sadly, as you say, he has a massive majority and it would take all the remain party's getting behind one candidate to make that happen.

However, if you do vote for LD and enough other people who think like you do also vote then a reduced majority for him, might just make him think.

As others have said, you're literally playing into their hands by doing nothing.

Re: Election 2019

Reply #357
Andrew Bridgen, think, no I can't see it

Re: Election 2019

Reply #358
Even if they all got behind one candidate it wouldn't be enough.

 

Re: Election 2019

Reply #359
Labour won't get a majority. Tactical voting would give the Lib Dems, SNP, PC and Greens the balance of power in Parliament. That would shut out a Tory Government and make No Deal or a Hard Brexit impossible. That would mean a People’s Vote. That would provide the only possible way to avoid Brexit.

https://www.getvoting.org/