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Re: Telly Thread

Reply #660
When people attribute suicides to things like this, they need to show that the the suicide.. tragic as it is.. is not a statistical inevitability. So does going on Jeremy Kyle increase the risk? Maybe it lessens it?

It’s like the occasional furore about suicides of Chinese people who assemble iPhones. We get told that X suicides of iPhone assemblers is terrible (which it is, of course) but not that the rate of suicide amongst iPhone assemblers is materially lower than amongst comparable non-iPhone assemblers.

I’m not defending the show. But I feel uneasy about pinning deaths on it without seeing some honest workings.
this is an excellent rectangle

 

Re: Telly Thread

Reply #661
What happened with Noel Tidybeard?

I believe he was involved in some 80s talent show thing where a contestant died. Life was a bit cheaper in the 80s so less f*cks were foretold.
The hardest thing of all is to find a black cat in a dark room, especially if there is no cat.

Re: Telly Thread

Reply #662
When people attribute suicides to things like this, they need to show that the the suicide.. tragic as it is.. is not a statistical inevitability. So does going on Jeremy Kyle increase the risk? Maybe it lessens it?

It’s like the occasional furore about suicides of Chinese people who assemble iPhones. We get told that X suicides of iPhone assemblers is terrible (which it is, of course) but not that the rate of suicide amongst iPhone assemblers is materially lower than amongst comparable non-iPhone assemblers.

I’m not defending the show. But I feel uneasy about pinning deaths on it without seeing some honest workings.

I'd say in this case that the constant baiting by Kyle and the baying crowd does not do anything to lessen the risk. The participant was, apparently certain that he would pass a lie detector test. Kyle whipped up the audience prior to the results before delivering the verdict, at which point the participant broke down and the audience was passing it's judgement; a little like a Roman circus. Within a few days he killed himself.

In other instances, there are claims that researchers ask potential participants about their medication, which often includes anti-deppresants and anti-anxiety pills. This does not preclude them from taking part, in fact it seems that it is a bonus.

The parallel to conditions in foreign factories is not a good one. We have no direct control over foreign conditions, but have outlawed all such practices within the EU. That is not to say that there are industries that employ working practices that cause stress and depression, indeed the welfare system in the UK also contributes to depression and possibly suicide. There are many campaigns to try and end these practices, but whilst we have a government that actively targets vulnerable sections of the population in the name of cost cutting, it's a difficult task.

Mental health is a seriously misunderstood problem and is still subject to stigma, and is an area where treatment options have been slashed in the name of austerity. Surely it doesn't take a giant leap of faith to realise that using it as a form of entertainment is more likely to be harmful than therapeutic? That's not to say that all participants were suffering from mental health issues, but a number definitely were, and it's worth losing the show to protect those who were exploited in this way.

It's all moot because the show has thankfully been cut.

Re: Telly Thread

Reply #663
I'd say in this case that the constant baiting by Kyle and the baying crowd does not do anything to lessen the risk. The participant was, apparently certain that he would pass a lie detector test. Kyle whipped up the audience prior to the results before delivering the verdict, at which point the participant broke down and the audience was passing it's judgement; a little like a Roman circus. Within a few days he killed himself.

In other instances, there are claims that researchers ask potential participants about their medication, which often includes anti-deppresants and anti-anxiety pills. This does not preclude them from taking part, in fact it seems that it is a bonus.

The parallel to conditions in foreign factories is not a good one. We have no direct control over foreign conditions, but have outlawed all such practices within the EU. That is not to say that there are industries that employ working practices that cause stress and depression, indeed the welfare system in the UK also contributes to depression and possibly suicide. There are many campaigns to try and end these practices, but whilst we have a government that actively targets vulnerable sections of the population in the name of cost cutting, it's a difficult task.

Mental health is a seriously misunderstood problem and is still subject to stigma, and is an area where treatment options have been slashed in the name of austerity. Surely it doesn't take a giant leap of faith to realise that using it as a form of entertainment is more likely to be harmful than therapeutic? That's not to say that all participants were suffering from mental health issues, but a number definitely were, and it's worth losing the show to protect those who were exploited in this way.

It's all moot because the show has thankfully been cut.

You may be right about Kyle. But it’s still speculation. You’re giving full weight to the example that suits, and an assumption that there aren’t other examples that support an alternative view. I’m not sticking up for the show, though.. just not at ease with measuring it’s damage with a death count.

But you misunderstand my point about factories. Which is that assembling iPhones means a worker is less likely to commit suicide than not assembling IPhones. But people wanting to make a point just take the examples of people who do suicide whilst employed as an IPhone assembler and say ‘look at this outrage’. My point has nothing to do with control or working practices. It’s about taking events and statistics in isolation.. without a point of reference to measure them against.
this is an excellent rectangle

Re: Telly Thread

Reply #664
You may be right about Kyle. But it’s still speculation. You’re giving full weight to the example that suits, and an assumption that there aren’t other examples that support an alternative view. I’m not sticking up for the show, though.. just not at ease with measuring it’s damage with a death count.

But you misunderstand my point about factories. Which is that assembling iPhones means a worker is less likely to commit suicide than not assembling IPhones. But people wanting to make a point just take the examples of people who do suicide whilst employed as an IPhone assembler and say ‘look at this outrage’. My point has nothing to do with control or working practices. It’s about taking events and statistics in isolation.. without a point of reference to measure them against.

But the iPhone factory is not directly exploiting people's state of mind to make the phones. For the Jeremy Kyle Show, the participant's state of mind is the key driver behind the entertainment. It uses people's weaknesses and exploits them in order to entertain and profit. The iPhone factory would exist irrespective of exploiting mental health issues; can the same be said about Jeremy Kyle?


Re: Telly Thread

Reply #666
I read that it's the Dungeons and Dragons final episode tonight/tomoz.  Is that just America or everywhere? Either way people will be losing their sh!t over a tv programme.

Bread and circuses, people.

Re: Telly Thread

Reply #667
I read that it's the Dungeons and Dragons final episode tonight/tomoz.  Is that just America or everywhere? Either way people will be losing their sh!t over a tv programme.

Bread and circuses, people.

2am UK time. One circus I won't be staying up for. Besides, Mrs KM is away and she wouldn't forgive me if I watched it without her.

Re: Telly Thread

Reply #668
I really liked the ending of Game Of Thrones, as I did the entire last season. I understand that there is a vociferous element that was desperate to have another 14 seasons of people muttering to each other in darkened castles, but as far as I'm concerned it finished at the right time and in the right way.
They don't think it be like it is, but it do


Re: Telly Thread

Reply #670
Don't watch this if a) you haven't yet seen the ending of Game Of Thrones, as it's full of spoilers, or b) you haven't been watching Game Of Thrones, because it won't make any sense.

https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/br2t0z/this_video_of_an_alternate_ending_wins_the/

I like that.

Enjoyed the last episode.  I enjoyed most of the last series, saving some questions of teleportation, battle tactics and troop replenishment, I thought it was good.

Re: Telly Thread

Reply #671
I really liked the ending of Game Of Thrones, as I did the entire last season. I understand that there is a vociferous element that was desperate to have another 14 seasons of people muttering to each other in darkened castles, but as far as I'm concerned it finished at the right time and in the right way.

Agreed, I thought it was a very good and appropriate end.

Re: Telly Thread

Reply #672
So did I. I'm glad it's ended.

Not seen a single minute of it, but hopefully people will stop banging on about it now.


Re: Telly Thread

Reply #674
Just watched Patrick Melrose. Despite not being a big fan of Cumbersnatch, this was great. I thought it would be utter tosh, assuming it would be a pastiche of upper class drug taking (which to be fair episode 1 is), but there after it gets really gut wrenching. Some bits of it I found really hard to watch especially having young kids. But despite that, and despite Cumbersnatch playing an upper crust old Etonian, its one of the best things I have watched in ages