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The Daily Cut and Thrust / Re: This Europe Stuff
Last post by karlmark -
We may be one of the 'major world powers' (after a handful of others) but that is partly due to our EU membership in itself.

It also begs the question as to why we joined in the first place. As a country we were struggling badly and figured out that it would be better for us to join in a large trading bloc. The problem was that after WWII we thought we could simply sit back and reap the victor's rewards and carry on trading to the diminishing Empire/Commonwealth as we had previously done. We were a great trading nation, and always would be. Except, we weren't: Sitting back on their laurels, the bosses of British companies were endlessly complacent and failed to invest and fell far behind other countries in terms of competitiveness.
What has changed since then? I still don't see British companies investing massively in order to gain competitive advantage. But that's ok, because we are a world power. Surprisingly, that isn't enough...
The Daily Cut and Thrust / Re: Mundane Moments
Last post by Rich B -
I had a similar experience the other day. I got a coffee from a motorway drive through; asked for sugar in it, and got tossed a couple of sachets of sugar.  I had to park up in the car park to sort it out, making me wonder what the point of the drive through actually was.
Could tell you guys a story on these lines but can’t be arsed to defend myself from the inevitable barrage
The Daily Cut and Thrust / Re: This Europe Stuff
Last post by DaveM -
Here's the thing: I, and i dare say, a good few people on here and out in the country would be happy to give Brexit a fair chance if there was any semblance OF A PLAN. An offer from Theresa May that breaches the fundamental principles of the single market (that, let's not forget, your lot - the Tories - where instrumental in creating) is not a plan, it's hit and hope.

I wouldn't.

I said at the time of the referendum and I've said ever since that I would be more than happy to hear cast iron reasons why leaving the EU would benefit the UK and outweigh the disadvantages it would bring. Even a list of genuine opportunities that stand up to cursory scrutiny would at least make me pause for thought.

But I've heard nothing. Nothing before the referendum other than a lot of misinformation, lies and nationalistic rainbows-and-unicorn visions. Nothing since the referendum either, despite all the vocal resistance amongst remain voters, splits in the political parties and difficulty of negotiations, where the PM could bring the country, and her party together, by selling exactly why we are doing this to the people who don't want to leave. Nothing.

And by carrying out this instruction which has no rational basis and is guaranteed to make us poorer, the government can't even give the appearance of being on top of negotiations and the likelihood of either a fudged deal which nobody is happy with, or a no-deal exit which only rich lunatics (or racists) would be happy with, get's ever closer.

So no rational reason for leaving the EU that outweighs the disadvantages.
No coherent plan at any time and a clear lack of competence in negotiating whatever our position is.
High chance that if Brexit happens, very few people will actually be happy with the outcome, even people who voted leave.

So no, I wouldn't be happy with ANY deal. All possible deals will make us poorer and more isolated on the world stage. It's just some deals are less disastrous than others, but they would all be detrimental to the countries future prosperity.

The only way that could change is if I heard a sensible argument for us leaving, but there never has been one.
The Daily Cut and Thrust / Re: This Europe Stuff
Last post by DaveM -
We may be one of the 'major world powers' (after a handful of others) but that is partly due to our EU membership in itself.

Leaving the EU and acting as an isolated island with additional barriers to trade, higher prices, a huge bill for leaving which will likely exasperate problems with the economy, service industries leaving, possible recession and no significant trade deals in place with anyone, and where we are unlikely to get amazing deals given in many cases we will then be the junior partner in negotiations, doesn't bode well for us keeping our status in the world rankings to be honest.

The Daily Cut and Thrust / Re: This Europe Stuff
Last post by tricky -
Well a fair proportion of GDP is purely internal but, yes, obviously we are trading wealth for sovereignty....
 Are we? What does this actually mean? What actual sovereignty will we be recovering that we don't have under the EU? You might want to consider in your answer the concessions we will have to agree to, in order to negotiate a trading agreement with any country, and also the potential for any individual country to challenge our quotas and terms under WTO rules.

I can see an awful lot of power, and control over our own destiny, that we are going to have to give up. Apart from some ill informed weasel words, that don't stack up in the massive pile of hypocrisy that significant numbers of people have appeared to buy, I don't see any effective form of additional control we are going to wrestle from anybody, if we are actually going to trade in a global economy.

Still.  MUSLIMS!