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11
The Daily Cut and Thrust / Re: This Europe Stuff
Last post by tricky -
There's a danger that (thick) people are minded to think something like "we'll, it's a clusterf*ck, but at least the f*cking thing is done and we don't have to hear about it any more". This is the fundamental mistake of people who want simple superficial answers to complex questions.  What needs to be done is for people to have the implications of this explained to them clearly.

This is a (potentially) withdrawal agreement alone. What it solidifies is the guarantee of years of uncertainty and negotiation, after having made sure we are starting from an unsustainable and massively disadvantageous position.

Only a deranged lunatic would be arguing for this. It basically a no deal, with a carrot of endless negotiation, at the cost of everything that people were promised.

15
The Daily Cut and Thrust / Re: This Europe Stuff
Last post by karlmark -
I'm slightly confused about the logistics of that and some of what Karl Mark posted.

If we've spent 18 months arriving at a deal (May's deal) and it is voted down, but 'no deal' is also voted down, doesn't that mean we'll have a couple of days or so to come up with another deal.  Which seems a little optimistic.

Put another way I'm unsure how you can vote against whatever deal is proposed and also vote against a no deal.  One or the other at this stage isn't it?

It's all untested and without any legal precedent. Article 50 has never been invoked and there is no clarity as to whether the cancellation requires all members to agree or if it can be done by the individual country. I would guess that a lot of it comes down to goodwill from the other countries, something which has been serially squandered by the petty tactics of the most pathetic Foreign Secretary ever to disgrace the office, the utter hopelessness of the former Brexit Minister and the PM herself.

Even if it can be revoked, there could well be repercussions in that we lose some of our opt-outs and rebates.
As for voting on the deal, it seems likely that all the opposition parties will vote against. It also seems likely that a fair number of Tories will vote against it. The Maybot would be reliant on some Labour MPs rebelling and voting for it, but beyond the usual small number of suspects I'm not sure they would have the figures to do this.

Lost amidst the wranglings over the deal yesterday was an effective defeat in Parliament for the government over the release of legal advice regarding Brexit. Labour pushed a motion calling for its release (backed by the ERG and DUP); facing certain defeat, the government ordered its own MPs to abstain. It is possible that this legal advice may contain some useful information as to what various lawyers have advised the government on potential positions regarding Article 50 and the options available. But, it was very interesting to see the government admit defeat and shows just how difficult it will be to win the vote.
16
The Daily Cut and Thrust / Re: This Europe Stuff
Last post by karlmark -
You would hope not. It's an agreement to please nobody, and f*ck us up for years.

You've got wonder quite what The Maybot is in this for. She must know that there is zero chance of pleasing anybody; perhaps she genuinely believes that she will go down in history as the person who managed to reconcile the irreconcilable? She'll most likely go down in history for other reasons, but I do hope she does not eclipse David Cameron in terms of the crap Prime Minister Hall of Shame.
17
The Daily Cut and Thrust / Re: Look to the skies!!!!
Last post by karlmark -
People have talked about "six pointers" since before my time watching football; it's a concept that tends to get introduced later on in the season when the performance of other teams is in slightly clearer focus than at the beginning, but in fact preventing the other team from accumulating points has exactly the same statistical and numerical effect on opening day as it does in March.

Pendants corner: I think you'll find that three points for a win wasn't introduced until 1981. Therefore people may have talked about "four pointers" before you were watching football, but definitely not "six pointers"....