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Re: Them there t'other clubs

Reply #11190
But I think his point was that if the money was enough the players would just sign a new contract,  removing those issues.

He could well be wrong for some  but I'm sure a good chunk would re sign. The key is the true superstars they may well value winning a world Cup over money as they are often filthy rich.

Also the remaining clubs would be poorer as I presume there would be arguments as to the enforcement of the broadcasting deals, certainly in the future, so maybe players would have to take a pay cut.

I still can't believe it will happen,  but it certainly seems far more likely than ever before.

Re: Them there t'other clubs

Reply #11191
If you are no longer in an affiliated football competition, and the players registration is not held by a club with that organisation (as it wont be, if the club is no longer affiliated), then there is no bar on a player signing with an actually affiliated club (beyond resolving their contractual situation), and them taking the player registration unencumbered. Effectively the players become out of contract (registration no longer held by a football club). That would remove the club from the protections over players under contract provided by affiliation and registration - but not their contractual requirement to pay them (and that contract may, in many cases, be challenged, as the club can now only offer the player to play Super league - not affiliated football). cf a league club losing their 'golden share'.


If what you mean is that the only thing standing between a player leaving a club (that's been kicked out its league) to join another club (in a league), is the player's own contractual relationship with the excommunicated club, then yes that's probably right. The league's registration rules would no longer apply.

But the existing club/player contract is still something you'd have to get around.(Your sentence beginning "Effectively" probably isn't accurate IMO). That contract doesn't just evaporate simply because (eg) Arsenal have been expelled from the EPL.

Re: Them there t'other clubs

Reply #11192
That being said, I go back to the point I made earlier, which is that I've no idea whether a professional football contract specifies the competitions in which the club expects the player to play, and in which the player expects to be able to play.

In the future, you can bet a player's contract will do exactly that. If it doesn't already.

Re: Them there t'other clubs

Reply #11193
I imagine there will be all manner of contractual possibilities. If, for example,  a players contract has a release clause if the club does not retain premier league status,  depending on wording, that might be an out. There might be legitimate legal challenges based on unfair contracts, and restraint of trade. Players contracts are labyrinthine. Ultimately if a player downs tools, you might be better cancelling his contract if it's costing you a million sheets a month. You no longer hold his registration though. 
I'm a fcuking idiot. Clearly.

Re: Them there t'other clubs

Reply #11194
Contracts will have bonuses dependent on performance in specific competitions. I can imagine that players will not be too impressed if they are no longer able to obtain any of those bonuses as they no longer take part in those competitions.

Re: Them there t'other clubs

Reply #11195
If every international at those clubs can no longer play for their country, but want to, expect the quality of play to go down,  and the disaffection up.

Being an international is key to the players branding, off-field earnings, and legacy.

If the games are tucked away on the Disney channel, nobody is watching, and players are banned from future affiliated club contracts, they are going to demand to be paid a lot more.  A lot. Or they will look to get out.
I'm a fcuking idiot. Clearly.

Re: Them there t'other clubs

Reply #11196
But very unpopular in the traditional markets. If you were in Japan/China etc and wanted to watch football would you watch the leagues etc who include international players who play in World Cups etc or a circus of self elected elites who are only playing each other. The Champions League has already become quite boring because it is same old/same old and this would be even worse.

I guess that’s the question which these clubs think they have the answer to. That there are hundreds of millions of people who, when it comes down to it, will pay to watch ManYoo whoever they are playing and in whatever competition. And, tbh, that probably includes the vast majority of their domestic fans.

Mind you, we’re talking about this in a world where this competition isn’t just something they do in addition to their traditional competitions. That is not their plan. They want all the cakes.
this is an excellent rectangle

Re: Them there t'other clubs

Reply #11197
Contracts will have bonuses dependent on performance in specific competitions. I can imagine that players will not be too impressed if they are no longer able to obtain any of those bonuses as they no longer take part in those competitions.

Indeed, but the club can get round that by compensating the player for lost bonuses and so on. If the loss is purely money, it's easy to remedy if the club wants to do it. Loss of a chance to play in certain competitions, or international teams, is potentially a different thing. I'd like to see a player contract.

Re: Them there t'other clubs

Reply #11198
Indeed, but the club can get round that by compensating the player for lost bonuses and so on. If the loss is purely money, it's easy to remedy if the club wants to do it. Loss of a chance to play in certain competitions, or international teams, is potentially a different thing. I'd like to see a player contract.

If the clubs did get kicked out of their domestic leagues (etc) it’s hard to imagine there wouldn’t be ample opportunity for players to get out of those contracts (but, for sure, we would want to see one.. and perhaps some of these clubs have been wording contracts with this sort of thing in mind). But those clubs would, themselves, probably agree not to take advantage of this to poach players from each other.. so players would just get to choose between the money on offer at their current club, and whatever is on offer elsewhere. Clubs outside of this league might be a little cautious with their spending due to the uncertainty over the ongoing economics of the old leagues.

But, again, this is all only an issue if the authorities respond as we would like them to.. and don’t we all assume that they will probably not do that?
this is an excellent rectangle

 

Re: Them there t'other clubs

Reply #11199
I’m not certain the project would fail. Plenty of sports and leagues do perfectly well as closed shops. International football isn’t as important a money, and the tradition of the domestic leagues probably doesn’t matter much in a lot of the key markets.

I'm not either, I hope it does, but surely you know more than anyone know the balance sheet rules here and the system is broken.

At the moment you gamble like f*ck and build as big a business as possibly that you know will be forced to drastically contract in a very expensive manner with only a couple of months notice. The distribution of funding at all stages is broken. Even if you run a good ship and then just trouser what you are fortunate enough to earn you're f*cked too. So big companies decide that this is no way to operate is hardly a surprise, surely it's as much about protecting the enterprise as it is about all out greed, we all love to laugh at the numbers but there are only so many 100s of millions they can lose. There is no parachute payment for missing out on Europe but you are still paying those operating costs. But all this is why I'm broadly done and only in it for the shouting and the boozing, the setting is business rather than sport. I'd argue F1 has a stronger drive to sporting integrity than top level football.   

I think most of you are the thick dumb tw@ts.

Re: Them there t'other clubs

Reply #11200
It seems that everybody in this country and across Europe is condemning the ESL. But I don't think this is about us. As Henry Winter said with some passion on Radio 4 this morning, the owners of these clubs don't care what European fans think or what Prince William thinks. They only care about money. And people like us (legacy fans) aren't the prize. They want the new fans in Africa and India and the Far East - people who know nothing about football culture and care even less, but are eager to buy shirts and perfumes and trainers associated with big name stars and to watch a bit of soccer on the TV as mere entertainment, not as the blood and guts, do or die stuff that we (or I anyway) love football for.

We have buckets of rhetoric and condemnation coming out of the media, the rest of football and the politicans. But do we have the bollocks? This looks to me like the perfect time to sort out football's problems; to address the spiralling wages, the dodgy ownerships, the parachute payments, the lack of respect for the FA Cup etc etc. Kick these clubs out of domestic competition and reform the whole structure of the game. Show some guts. Put the fans first. Stop thinking of football as a global media enterprise and more as something that matters to ordinary people. As Cloughie said, it's our game not theirs.

Re: Them there t'other clubs

Reply #11201
And people like us (legacy fans) aren't the prize. They want the new fans in Africa and India and the Far East - people who know nothing about football culture and care even less, but are eager to buy shirts and perfumes and trainers associated with big name stars and to watch a bit of soccer on the TV as mere entertainment

See also: glory supporting kids. I blame your lots generation for this in particular. Loads of kids at my school "supported" the big teams (and ultimately this). You should of educated your kids better, my football or no football you little b@stards. 
I think most of you are the thick dumb tw@ts.

Re: Them there t'other clubs

Reply #11202
I for one would be happy if these clubs left. With them gone you might get agreement amongst the other clubs on some sort of appropriate financial restraint.

The absolute worst case scenario is the SL going ahead but the six clubs remaining in the EPL, which would effectively be feeding their financial habit while they flew around the world playing exhibition matches.

Re: Them there t'other clubs

Reply #11203
The absolute worst case scenario is the SL going ahead but the six clubs remaining in the EPL, which would effectively be feeding their financial habit while they flew around the world playing exhibition matches.

You could see this playing out where the league is treated the way they currently treat the cups. The money comes from Europe so the league is just something they do at weekends, with the white ball players away on their yachts.
I think most of you are the thick dumb tw@ts.

Re: Them there t'other clubs

Reply #11204
See also: glory supporting kids. I blame your lots generation for this in particular. Loads of kids at my school "supported" the big teams (and ultimately this). You should of educated your kids better, my football or no football you little b@stards. 

Ha, all my kids are Forest fans. It's part of the deal when you become part of our family. Even my daughter's partner has relegated Arsenal (his boyhood club) to second place in his affections, behind Forest.