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1
The Daily Cut and Thrust / Re: Them there t'other clubs
Last post by Unbelievable Jeff! -
The absolute worst case scenario is the SL going ahead but the six clubs remaining in the EPL, which would effectively be feeding their financial habit while they flew around the world playing exhibition matches.

You could see this playing out where the league is treated the way they currently treat the cups. The money comes from Europe so the league is just something they do at weekends, with the white ball players away on their yachts.
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The Daily Cut and Thrust / Re: Them there t'other clubs
Last post by a JP -
I for one would be happy if these clubs left. With them gone you might get agreement amongst the other clubs on some sort of appropriate financial restraint.

The absolute worst case scenario is the SL going ahead but the six clubs remaining in the EPL, which would effectively be feeding their financial habit while they flew around the world playing exhibition matches.
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The Daily Cut and Thrust / Re: Them there t'other clubs
Last post by Unbelievable Jeff! -
And people like us (legacy fans) aren't the prize. They want the new fans in Africa and India and the Far East - people who know nothing about football culture and care even less, but are eager to buy shirts and perfumes and trainers associated with big name stars and to watch a bit of soccer on the TV as mere entertainment

See also: glory supporting kids. I blame your lots generation for this in particular. Loads of kids at my school "supported" the big teams (and ultimately this). You should of educated your kids better, my football or no football you little b@stards. 
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The Daily Cut and Thrust / Re: The Plague, 2020/21
Last post by charlie -


 Nobody was sitting there with T&T expertise at the start of this..

But that's not true. Local health authorities have loads of experience in this sort of stuff. They use it for STDs, for example, and have access to lots of labs. The Tories decided for ideological reasons not to use the exisiting public sector expertise and resources and to instead start a private sector f*ck up with their mates.
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The Daily Cut and Thrust / Re: Them there t'other clubs
Last post by charlie -
It seems that everybody in this country and across Europe is condemning the ESL. But I don't think this is about us. As Henry Winter said with some passion on Radio 4 this morning, the owners of these clubs don't care what European fans think or what Prince William thinks. They only care about money. And people like us (legacy fans) aren't the prize. They want the new fans in Africa and India and the Far East - people who know nothing about football culture and care even less, but are eager to buy shirts and perfumes and trainers associated with big name stars and to watch a bit of soccer on the TV as mere entertainment, not as the blood and guts, do or die stuff that we (or I anyway) love football for.

We have buckets of rhetoric and condemnation coming out of the media, the rest of football and the politicans. But do we have the bollocks? This looks to me like the perfect time to sort out football's problems; to address the spiralling wages, the dodgy ownerships, the parachute payments, the lack of respect for the FA Cup etc etc. Kick these clubs out of domestic competition and reform the whole structure of the game. Show some guts. Put the fans first. Stop thinking of football as a global media enterprise and more as something that matters to ordinary people. As Cloughie said, it's our game not theirs.
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The Daily Cut and Thrust / Re: Them there t'other clubs
Last post by Unbelievable Jeff! -
I’m not certain the project would fail. Plenty of sports and leagues do perfectly well as closed shops. International football isn’t as important a money, and the tradition of the domestic leagues probably doesn’t matter much in a lot of the key markets.

I'm not either, I hope it does, but surely you know more than anyone know the balance sheet rules here and the system is broken.

At the moment you gamble like f*ck and build as big a business as possibly that you know will be forced to drastically contract in a very expensive manner with only a couple of months notice. The distribution of funding at all stages is broken. Even if you run a good ship and then just trouser what you are fortunate enough to earn you're f*cked too. So big companies decide that this is no way to operate is hardly a surprise, surely it's as much about protecting the enterprise as it is about all out greed, we all love to laugh at the numbers but there are only so many 100s of millions they can lose. There is no parachute payment for missing out on Europe but you are still paying those operating costs. But all this is why I'm broadly done and only in it for the shouting and the boozing, the setting is business rather than sport. I'd argue F1 has a stronger drive to sporting integrity than top level football.   

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The Daily Cut and Thrust / Re: The Plague, 2020/21
Last post by noodlé -


Quote
King, a former professor of chemistry at Cambridge University, has a long history of working with governments of all stripes. He was appointed chief scientific adviser under Tony Blair in 2000, serving until 2008, and under the Tory-Lib Dem coalition was appointed chair of the Future Cities Catapult, launched in 2013. He also worked under Johnson as foreign secretary during Theresa May’s premiership.

Well I guess he's pretty well qualified to know a chumocracy when he sees one.

He's right about stuff, let's not play down how much the T&T stuff was a corrupt clusterf*ck.. though comparison to the vaccine rollout is kinda bogus. Firstly, they are fundamentally different challenges. Nobody was sitting there with T&T expertise at the start of this.. whereas GP clinics have been doing 'make appointments and do a medical thing' for decades - that is a core competency. T&T may have been done better (it would certainly have been done cheaper) with a different approach.. but whoever did it was going to be making it up from scratch (because governments everywhere have been ignoring pandemic risk since forever ago). Secondly, GP clinics are evidently doing a superb job of delivery, but they only have vaccines to deliver because people much higher up the food chain, perhaps even in government, managed to get something right... don't fall into the trap of crediting every success to hard working public sector staff and every failure to the government (even if the tories do have decades of form running the opposite argument). Lastly, just for the lolz, most GP's are independent private providers delivering services for, and on behalf of, the NHS. They are not doing a good job because their wages come from A instead of B.. they are doing a good job because they are competent people doing a task that is within their sphere of expertise, and they have been given the tools that they need to do it.

So yes.. T&T involved grifters getting rich off of failure and vaccination involves the NHS and affiliates doing an outstanding job for (as I understand it) not very much money... but the 'NHS good, tories bad' is the take that ends up on twitter.. and twitter never has the right take. The actual learning (which should not need to be learned) is that you should give tasks to people already demonstrably capable of doing the task, and if nobody is demonstrably capable of doing the task the very last thing you should do is call f*cking Deloitte. Plus, for the avoidance of doubt, you can't trust the tories.
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The Daily Cut and Thrust / Re: The managerial merry-go-round
Last post by Russ -
You reckon? I could see it going either way... mercenary who doesn’t give a f*ck, or student and lover of the game who believes in the importance of it’s history and institutions. I do kinda err towards the latter... that feels on brand.

The second hand story I have from an impeccable source (RD, formerly of these parts) is that Mourinho is very much the latter, in which he demonstrated himself to be an absolutely class in a football situation away from the bright lights. I'm sure I can tell the story if anyone cares, but it's basically related to the way he treated a lower league club who got drawn away at Chelsea in the Cup a number of years ago. Maybe he's changed since then, but hearing it has made me always have a soft spot for him.
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The Daily Cut and Thrust / Re: Them there t'other clubs
Last post by noodlé -
Indeed, but the club can get round that by compensating the player for lost bonuses and so on. If the loss is purely money, it's easy to remedy if the club wants to do it. Loss of a chance to play in certain competitions, or international teams, is potentially a different thing. I'd like to see a player contract.

If the clubs did get kicked out of their domestic leagues (etc) it’s hard to imagine there wouldn’t be ample opportunity for players to get out of those contracts (but, for sure, we would want to see one.. and perhaps some of these clubs have been wording contracts with this sort of thing in mind). But those clubs would, themselves, probably agree not to take advantage of this to poach players from each other.. so players would just get to choose between the money on offer at their current club, and whatever is on offer elsewhere. Clubs outside of this league might be a little cautious with their spending due to the uncertainty over the ongoing economics of the old leagues.

But, again, this is all only an issue if the authorities respond as we would like them to.. and don’t we all assume that they will probably not do that?