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Poll

Should the UK be In or Out of Europe?

  • In
  • Out
  • Shake it all about
  • d)

Topic: This Europe Stuff (Read 67074 times) previous topic - next topic

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  • karlmark
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Re: This Europe Stuff
Reply #15

In.

Anything else is short term, backward mentalism.


I'm actually undecided at the moment. This has nothing to do with immigration as I hold no truck with any claims that people actually come here to claim benefits (given that the government's own, largely suppressed, data shows that immigration actually benefits the economy). The issue for me is that the leadership of Europe has lost its way.

I would have been a solid 'in' voter were it not for the treatment of Greece last year. A country that voted to reject the austerity measures proposed by the EU (the IMF is slightly less at fault here given that it has long been their contention that a large writedown of debt is necessary) was bullied and blackmailed into accepting the same measures. This had nothing to do with Greece having to take its medicine, and everything to do with the fact that German and French banks have massive loans to Greece on their books. So, it's about the Greek people bailing out the French and German banks.

A further point is that the Euro is an inherently flawed concept; the fact that Greece was allowed to become so indebted was because they were able to borrow at German interest rates. Indeed, countries such as Greece, Ireland, Spain and Portugal were crying out for higher interest rates in the mid-2000s to curb overheating property markets and rising debts. Some will point to the fact that the Spanish and Irish economies are now recovering: this is true, but they are recovering from a very low base and the social upheavel caused by so many years of harsh austerity cannot be measured by GDP stats.

The EU needs to reassess what its aims actually are: the concept of a united Europe which aims to maintain peace and provide a trading bloc is highly laudable. On the other hand, the Euro project and the placing of large chunks of monetary policy in the hands of the Germans is not so laudable; witness the almost complete stagnation of large parts of the Eurozone outside of Germany, France (debatable) and the Benelux countries.

On the pro-side, I find it hard to side with the likes of Farage, Redwood et al, so for that reason I may well end up voting to stay in.

  • jp
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  • Global Strategy
Re: This Europe Stuff
Reply #16


On the pro-side, I find it hard to side with the likes of Farage, Redwood et al and RichB, so for that reason I may well end up voting to stay in.


FTFY.

  • The GasMan
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Re: This Europe Stuff
Reply #17
Stay in; but deffo keep Sterling clear of the Euro!

  • tricky
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Re: This Europe Stuff
Reply #18

I'm sure that Germany is a nice place to go to now, don't let the door hit you on the way out.


It is a lovely place to go, and we can go right from here without the need to have any yankee barn doors hitting us on our talking orifices as we go. That's one of the benefits of the European Union.

You were the one preferring to leave, toodle pip.

  • Rich B
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Re: This Europe Stuff
Reply #19

It is a lovely place to go, and we can go right from here without the need to have any yankee barn doors hitting us on our talking orifices as we go. That's one of the benefits of the European Union.

You were the one preferring to leave, toodle pip.

I am quite happy to remain in England thank you very much, just don't want it governed by tw@ts in Brussels

  • tricky
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Re: This Europe Stuff
Reply #20

Sooner be the 51st state of the USA than remain in the EC


Not what you said, see above. We are not governed by Europe, but you want out unless we are totally isolationist and independent...which is a whole different ball game that few who advocate it have properly thought through.

I see no evidence that you have thought it through, in case there was any ambiguity in my statement, given that you seem to have bought the bigots shorthand about being "governed by the tw@ts in Brussels".

  • jp
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  • Global Strategy
Re: This Europe Stuff
Reply #21
It's just same tw@ts, different name.

This is what makes me laugh about the Scottish Independence movement. Scottish politicians are no less prone to being self-interested venal f*cktards than Westminster politicians, but for independence supporters everything will certainly be better once the crappy Scottish political class have full control.

Similarly, in the context of Europe, people say they don't want to be ruled by tw@ts in Brussels, but on what basis are you judging that they do a worse job at what they do, that the Westminster politicians do at everything else?

  • Rich B
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Re: This Europe Stuff
Reply #22

Not what you said, see above. We are not governed by Europe, but you want out unless we are totally isolationist and independent...which is a whole different ball game that few who advocate it have properly thought through.

I see no evidence that you have thought it through, in case there was any ambiguity in my statement, given that you seem to have bought the bigots shorthand about being "governed by the tw@ts in Brussels".

I didn't say it, I wrote it - see I can be pedantic too, thought this site was totally irreverent and didn't feel I had to write an essay each post. Oh well duly chastened.

By all accounts should we exit the EC the whole of Europe will turn against us and stop trading with us leaving us bankrupt in a couple of years.

Scoff all you like and by all means call it isolationism but I would prefer to be governed from London and not anywhere else in Europe by people f*ck all to do with Britain.








  • karlmark
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Re: This Europe Stuff
Reply #23

Not what you said, see above. We are not governed by Europe, but you want out unless we are totally isolationist and independent...which is a whole different ball game that few who advocate it have properly thought through.

I see no evidence that you have thought it through, in case there was any ambiguity in my statement, given that you seem to have bought the bigots shorthand about being "governed by the tw@ts in Brussels".


I think this post nicely sums up how the debate will go in the country as a whole once the date is announced.

"Don't want to be governed by Brussels"
"Too many immigrants"
"We give the EU too much money"

"Leaving will cost jobs"
"Leaving will cause a run on the Pound"
"We need the security of Europe"


  • karlmark
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Re: This Europe Stuff
Reply #24

I would prefer to be governed from London and not anywhere else in Europe by people f*ck all to do with Britain.


Are we governed by Europe?
The EU certainly sets trading rules and imposes standards (Working hours, trading standards, safety standards) and also rules on whether nation laws contravene some cores (such as rights etc.). However, remaining outside of the Euro currency I don't really think that we are ruled by Europe outside of those areas unless there are other areas I have missed?

  • pantzcat
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Re: This Europe Stuff
Reply #25

Are we governed by Europe?
The EU certainly sets trading rules and imposes standards (Working hours, trading standards, safety standards) and also rules on whether nation laws contravene some cores (such as rights etc.). However, remaining outside of the Euro currency I don't really think that we are ruled by Europe outside of those areas unless there are other areas I have missed?


If Chicago's post is anything to go by they get to name our chocolate bars as well, the b@stards!

Re: This Europe Stuff
Reply #26
Out. The EU appears about as democratic and incorruptible as FIFA and I can't vote for a different flavour of caaaant if I don't like the ones in charge.

I think Cameron has more than one eye on future career opportunities, hence his wishy-washy attempts at compromise.

  • Last Edit: February 04, 2016, 04:03:53 PM by Mike B.

  • tricky
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Re: This Europe Stuff
Reply #27
In other news, I watched sports relief bake off last night.  Shouted 'prick' at the television more times than is healthy, and got severely criticised for my Balls induced tourettes.

Politicians are, and always have been, self-interested tw@ts. It doesn't matter where they sit, or what accent they have.

Being more comfortable with the provenance of your overlord is unlikely to compensate for increasing cost of goods, while your house value plummets, and the 'figures' tell you that all is well (because goods inflation is offset by reducing house prices).

If we fancy a bit of righteous indignation and upsetting the status quo, can't we have a dabble with republicanism, before we pick on shooting the golden goose?

  • DaveM
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Re: This Europe Stuff
Reply #28
'In', and I can't believe anyone really thinks the alternative is viable
The inside of a Halex Three-Star table-tennis ball smells much like you'd expect it to

Re: This Europe Stuff
Reply #29

'In', and I can't believe anyone really thinks the alternative is viable


Blimey. DaveM and I appear to be temporarily politically aligned.

Welcome, comrade.